tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
We'll kick your ass in

Postby mego » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:14 pm

btw i'm not suggesting people who like seachange have a flawed opinion because they "just don't get REAL beck mannn" I'm saying that perhaps people who were super into his old folk sound prior find it hard to get seachange.

i'm curious... are there any beck fans here who are really into his pre mellow gold stuff AND really into Seachange? If so, did you listen to the early stuff before or after hearing Seachange?
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Postby chairkicker » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:37 pm

i don't ride crazy hard for sea change, it's certainly a flawed record and i also found it disappointing on release, but it's really grown on me in the years since. and i was a beck fan before it ever leaked. stereopathetic soulmanure and all

and in that time i could never understand what people saw in mutations
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Postby chairkicker » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:43 pm

and i asked this question exactly as i did knowing sea change's released marked a huge dividing line in beck fandom, same way hail to the thief did. but considering i think mutations barely has two songs going for it, i've always wondered why it's brilliant and sea change is garbage, especially since sea change has got "round the bend"
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Postby chairkicker » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:06 pm

i swear 70% of mutations is player piano music
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Postby chairkicker » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:20 pm

and honestly i think beck's fucking amazing voice carries sea change through its rough spots
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Postby WAC » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:14 pm

blurst of times wrote:sea change has some good songs but it's overall too repetitive and i get sick of it after a few tracks

mutations is wayyyy more interesting both musically and lyrically


I agree with this but I haven't listened to Sea Change in a while
He said ALOT of shit last night. And most of it WASN'T how he supported a fascist.
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Postby brent » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:27 pm

pre-odelay beck mostly stinks. kinda like post-sea change beck
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Postby mego » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:46 pm

Actually Beck has been on a steady decline since Odelay. Mellow gold, one foot and odelay is his best run.
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Postby laserblast » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:50 pm

i don't think I've ever listened to either of those hold up i'm gonna do that rn
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Postby WAC » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:13 pm

Modern Guilt has good songs but the production is pretty bad.
He said ALOT of shit last night. And most of it WASN'T how he supported a fascist.
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Postby blurst of times » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:21 pm

mego wrote:i think the issue with seachange for me is there's no trace of the old beck. all his quirks and spark are gone.

all prior beck releases had a degree of pastiche but at least it still felt like beck. seachange is the sound of beck purging his old self in his music. ever since you hear him trying to get that spark back but it's gone. i can't find the article but i remember reading all the parallels to scientology in seachange and one of them was how Golden Age is supposed to be the act of reaching some high level of freedom from past demons. pity the demons are what made his music good.


i think all of this is accurate. i was a huge beck fan pre-sea change, and hearing that album for the first time was one of the most disappointing listening experiences for me. all of the weirdness i loved about beck got replaced with a strangely vacant, invasion of the body snatchers version of him. i didn't know about his scientology flirtations at the time, but it makes sense that had something to do with the shift.

i've warmed up to the album a bit since then, but a lot of that initial flatness i felt still comes through on this album for me.
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Postby WAC » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:51 pm

I wasn't a fan of The Information at all when it came out but it's a lot better than I remember
He said ALOT of shit last night. And most of it WASN'T how he supported a fascist.
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Postby mego » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:17 am

I had no idea about the Scientology stuff then either.

Wish I could find the article but about half of the tracks have lyrics which directly reference Scientology.
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Postby fester » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:20 am

i pretty much only care for his more sincere stuff like sea change, some of mutations, and morning phase

so much of his music is pure schtick and it's not for me
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Postby fester » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:30 am

looking back at them now I probably only still really like four songs on each of those albums

guess i'm not a beck fan
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Postby FourLegsGood » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:05 am

Mutations has more intriguing lyrics. Sea Change is better produced with more fully realized sonic-touches. Blend the two and you have a perfect album.
easy wrote:GOD DAMN IT
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Postby Repo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:02 am

mego wrote:I had no idea about the Scientology stuff then either.


really? he was born a scientologist, his parents were friends with l ron hubbard, I think

Further confirmation came in an interview with the Irish Sunday Tribune's i Magazine on June 11, 2005, where he was quoted as saying, "Yeah, I'm a Scientologist. My father has been a Scientologist for about 35 years, so I grew up in and around it."
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Postby mego » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:41 am

Sea change came out in 2002 though, 3 years after that interview
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Postby Repo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:59 am

oh yeah, sorry, I thought you had never heard he's a scientologist
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Postby chairkicker » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:15 pm

i seriously doubt sea change is any more influenced by scientology than any of his other work

and i do't think its fair to say sea change is beck stripped of idiosyncrasy, considering all of its sonic touches. it's just consciously more direct
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Postby mego » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:09 pm

i don't know much about his post seachange work but seachange is definitely more scientology influenced than his previous albums. several of the songs have lyrics which directly reference the religion. one interpretation of the album is it's about him finally embracing the church and breaking up with his partner as a result because she wouldn't join the church. in the 90s he lived with is grandmother who sheltered him from the church as both of his parents were scientologists. after she died he got sucked in eventually. it was allegedly rather gradual at first but it seemed he'd fully embraced it by the time seachange came out based on the lyrics and the number of scientologist musicians and sound engineers he worked with on seachange. mutations was the first album which some scientlogists worked on. maybe it was just his father doing string arrangements on a few tracks on that album i can't remember.

fair enough if you feel that it's no less stripped back of idiosyncrasies but i think it's pretty clear that there's heavy scientology influence on the album.
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Postby laserblast » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:18 pm

laserblast wrote:i don't think I've ever listened to either of those hold up i'm gonna do that rn


update: mutations has some very solid songs and also some very boring songs

i don't think i like beck very much tbh so i'm not gonna listen to sea change
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Postby chairkicker » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:31 pm

mego wrote:i don't know much about his post seachange work but seachange is definitely more scientology influenced than his previous albums. several of the songs have lyrics which directly reference the religion. one interpretation of the album is it's about him finally embracing the church and breaking up with his partner as a result because she wouldn't join the church. in the 90s he lived with is grandmother who sheltered him from the church as both of his parents were scientologists. after she died he got sucked in eventually. it was allegedly rather gradual at first but it seemed he'd fully embraced it by the time seachange came out based on the lyrics and the number of scientologist musicians and sound engineers he worked with on seachange. mutations was the first album which some scientlogists worked on. maybe it was just his father doing string arrangements on a few tracks on that album i can't remember.

fair enough if you feel that it's no less stripped back of idiosyncrasies but i think it's pretty clear that there's heavy scientology influence on the album.


sea change is clearly the record of a dude who's falling apart. it's a cheated on beck fumbling through a lot of realization. it's all the emotional fallout of a crumbing relationship. and if you don't want to take my word for it:

After completing the tour for Midnite Vultures (1999), Beck and his fiancée, stylist Leigh Limon, ended their nine-year relationship. Three weeks before Beck's 30th birthday, he discovered Limon had been having an affair with a member of Los Angeles band Whiskey Biscuit.[3] Beck lapsed into a period of melancholy and introspection, during which he wrote the bleak, acoustic-based tracks on Sea Change.[4] He wrote most of the album's 12 songs in one week, but shelved them. "Songs sit in my head for a while," he told Time in 2002. "I have dozens in there, songs from eight years ago that I've written but never recorded. After a while, I just sort of decide to record them."[5] Beck also strayed from the songs to keep from talking about his personal life, as well as to focus on music and "not really strew my baggage across the public lobby." Eventually, however, he found the songs speak to an experience (a relationship breakup) that is common, and that it would not seem self-indulgent to record them.[6] In 2001, Beck drifted back to the songs and called his frequent producer, Nigel Godrich.[5]


what about it suggests any kind of major scientology influence?
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Postby Ersaph » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:49 pm

Sea Change is exhausting to read about
And I feel like this year is really about, just the year of realizing stuff.
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Postby chairkicker » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:58 pm

you still haven't told me why mutations is a record i should be listening to. then again no one has. it can't just be the lyrical content
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Postby mego » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:40 pm

yes it's clearly about a breakup but it's also about finding solace in scientology to cope with his breakup
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Postby mego » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:45 pm

i much prefer the lyrics of mutations. i like it when beck seems to be singing about detached nonsense but then you're unexpectedly hit with something poignant

what do you think about the lyrics on One Foot in the Grave?
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Postby chairkicker » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:53 am

mego wrote:yes it's clearly about a breakup but it's also about finding solace in scientology to cope with his breakup

i don't think there's much evidence of this

mego wrote:i much prefer the lyrics of mutations. i like it when beck seems to be singing about detached nonsense but then you're unexpectedly hit with something poignant

what do you think about the lyrics on One Foot in the Grave?


i like them
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Postby separator » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:11 am

Beck is a singles guy anyways
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Postby Grumby » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:38 am

separator wrote:Beck is a singles guy anyways


nahhhh. but he does have very strong singles.
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