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Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:14 pm
by mego
btw i'm not suggesting people who like seachange have a flawed opinion because they "just don't get REAL beck mannn" I'm saying that perhaps people who were super into his old folk sound prior find it hard to get seachange.

i'm curious... are there any beck fans here who are really into his pre mellow gold stuff AND really into Seachange? If so, did you listen to the early stuff before or after hearing Seachange?

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:37 pm
by chairkicker
i don't ride crazy hard for sea change, it's certainly a flawed record and i also found it disappointing on release, but it's really grown on me in the years since. and i was a beck fan before it ever leaked. stereopathetic soulmanure and all

and in that time i could never understand what people saw in mutations

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:43 pm
by chairkicker
and i asked this question exactly as i did knowing sea change's released marked a huge dividing line in beck fandom, same way hail to the thief did. but considering i think mutations barely has two songs going for it, i've always wondered why it's brilliant and sea change is garbage, especially since sea change has got "round the bend"

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:06 pm
by chairkicker
i swear 70% of mutations is player piano music

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:20 pm
by chairkicker
and honestly i think beck's fucking amazing voice carries sea change through its rough spots

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:14 pm
by WAC
blurst of times wrote:sea change has some good songs but it's overall too repetitive and i get sick of it after a few tracks

mutations is wayyyy more interesting both musically and lyrically


I agree with this but I haven't listened to Sea Change in a while

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:27 pm
by brent
pre-odelay beck mostly stinks. kinda like post-sea change beck

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:46 pm
by mego
Actually Beck has been on a steady decline since Odelay. Mellow gold, one foot and odelay is his best run.

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:50 pm
by laserblast
i don't think I've ever listened to either of those hold up i'm gonna do that rn

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:13 pm
by WAC
Modern Guilt has good songs but the production is pretty bad.

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:21 pm
by blurst of times
mego wrote:i think the issue with seachange for me is there's no trace of the old beck. all his quirks and spark are gone.

all prior beck releases had a degree of pastiche but at least it still felt like beck. seachange is the sound of beck purging his old self in his music. ever since you hear him trying to get that spark back but it's gone. i can't find the article but i remember reading all the parallels to scientology in seachange and one of them was how Golden Age is supposed to be the act of reaching some high level of freedom from past demons. pity the demons are what made his music good.


i think all of this is accurate. i was a huge beck fan pre-sea change, and hearing that album for the first time was one of the most disappointing listening experiences for me. all of the weirdness i loved about beck got replaced with a strangely vacant, invasion of the body snatchers version of him. i didn't know about his scientology flirtations at the time, but it makes sense that had something to do with the shift.

i've warmed up to the album a bit since then, but a lot of that initial flatness i felt still comes through on this album for me.

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:51 pm
by WAC
I wasn't a fan of The Information at all when it came out but it's a lot better than I remember

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:17 am
by mego
I had no idea about the Scientology stuff then either.

Wish I could find the article but about half of the tracks have lyrics which directly reference Scientology.

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:20 am
by fester
i pretty much only care for his more sincere stuff like sea change, some of mutations, and morning phase

so much of his music is pure schtick and it's not for me

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:30 am
by fester
looking back at them now I probably only still really like four songs on each of those albums

guess i'm not a beck fan

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:05 am
by FourLegsGood
Mutations has more intriguing lyrics. Sea Change is better produced with more fully realized sonic-touches. Blend the two and you have a perfect album.

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:02 am
by Repo
mego wrote:I had no idea about the Scientology stuff then either.


really? he was born a scientologist, his parents were friends with l ron hubbard, I think

Further confirmation came in an interview with the Irish Sunday Tribune's i Magazine on June 11, 2005, where he was quoted as saying, "Yeah, I'm a Scientologist. My father has been a Scientologist for about 35 years, so I grew up in and around it."

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:41 am
by mego
Sea change came out in 2002 though, 3 years after that interview

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:59 am
by Repo
oh yeah, sorry, I thought you had never heard he's a scientologist

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:15 pm
by chairkicker
i seriously doubt sea change is any more influenced by scientology than any of his other work

and i do't think its fair to say sea change is beck stripped of idiosyncrasy, considering all of its sonic touches. it's just consciously more direct

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:09 pm
by mego
i don't know much about his post seachange work but seachange is definitely more scientology influenced than his previous albums. several of the songs have lyrics which directly reference the religion. one interpretation of the album is it's about him finally embracing the church and breaking up with his partner as a result because she wouldn't join the church. in the 90s he lived with is grandmother who sheltered him from the church as both of his parents were scientologists. after she died he got sucked in eventually. it was allegedly rather gradual at first but it seemed he'd fully embraced it by the time seachange came out based on the lyrics and the number of scientologist musicians and sound engineers he worked with on seachange. mutations was the first album which some scientlogists worked on. maybe it was just his father doing string arrangements on a few tracks on that album i can't remember.

fair enough if you feel that it's no less stripped back of idiosyncrasies but i think it's pretty clear that there's heavy scientology influence on the album.

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:18 pm
by laserblast
laserblast wrote:i don't think I've ever listened to either of those hold up i'm gonna do that rn


update: mutations has some very solid songs and also some very boring songs

i don't think i like beck very much tbh so i'm not gonna listen to sea change

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:31 pm
by chairkicker
mego wrote:i don't know much about his post seachange work but seachange is definitely more scientology influenced than his previous albums. several of the songs have lyrics which directly reference the religion. one interpretation of the album is it's about him finally embracing the church and breaking up with his partner as a result because she wouldn't join the church. in the 90s he lived with is grandmother who sheltered him from the church as both of his parents were scientologists. after she died he got sucked in eventually. it was allegedly rather gradual at first but it seemed he'd fully embraced it by the time seachange came out based on the lyrics and the number of scientologist musicians and sound engineers he worked with on seachange. mutations was the first album which some scientlogists worked on. maybe it was just his father doing string arrangements on a few tracks on that album i can't remember.

fair enough if you feel that it's no less stripped back of idiosyncrasies but i think it's pretty clear that there's heavy scientology influence on the album.


sea change is clearly the record of a dude who's falling apart. it's a cheated on beck fumbling through a lot of realization. it's all the emotional fallout of a crumbing relationship. and if you don't want to take my word for it:

After completing the tour for Midnite Vultures (1999), Beck and his fiancée, stylist Leigh Limon, ended their nine-year relationship. Three weeks before Beck's 30th birthday, he discovered Limon had been having an affair with a member of Los Angeles band Whiskey Biscuit.[3] Beck lapsed into a period of melancholy and introspection, during which he wrote the bleak, acoustic-based tracks on Sea Change.[4] He wrote most of the album's 12 songs in one week, but shelved them. "Songs sit in my head for a while," he told Time in 2002. "I have dozens in there, songs from eight years ago that I've written but never recorded. After a while, I just sort of decide to record them."[5] Beck also strayed from the songs to keep from talking about his personal life, as well as to focus on music and "not really strew my baggage across the public lobby." Eventually, however, he found the songs speak to an experience (a relationship breakup) that is common, and that it would not seem self-indulgent to record them.[6] In 2001, Beck drifted back to the songs and called his frequent producer, Nigel Godrich.[5]


what about it suggests any kind of major scientology influence?

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:49 pm
by Ersaph
Sea Change is exhausting to read about

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:58 pm
by chairkicker
you still haven't told me why mutations is a record i should be listening to. then again no one has. it can't just be the lyrical content

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:40 pm
by mego
yes it's clearly about a breakup but it's also about finding solace in scientology to cope with his breakup

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:45 pm
by mego
i much prefer the lyrics of mutations. i like it when beck seems to be singing about detached nonsense but then you're unexpectedly hit with something poignant

what do you think about the lyrics on One Foot in the Grave?

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:53 am
by chairkicker
mego wrote:yes it's clearly about a breakup but it's also about finding solace in scientology to cope with his breakup

i don't think there's much evidence of this

mego wrote:i much prefer the lyrics of mutations. i like it when beck seems to be singing about detached nonsense but then you're unexpectedly hit with something poignant

what do you think about the lyrics on One Foot in the Grave?


i like them

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:11 am
by separator
Beck is a singles guy anyways

Re: tell me why mutations is a better record than sea change

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:38 am
by Grumby
separator wrote:Beck is a singles guy anyways


nahhhh. but he does have very strong singles.